Innovating Your Digital Offerings

Intro: Helping community bankers grow themselves, their team, and their profits, this is The Community Bank Podcast. Now, here are your hosts, Erik Bagwell Tom Fitzgerald.

Erik: Welcome to The Community Bank Podcast, coming to you from Atlanta, Georgia, I’m Erik Bagwell, director of sales and marketing for the correspondent division of CenterState Bank. Joining me as always, is Tom Fitzgerald, Tom is our strategy and research guy in the capital markets area of our division. Tom, you’re doing okay?

Tom Fitzgerald: I’m doing good, Eric, and I just want to thank everybody for listening to our last episode, we’re dealing with the investment portfolio, we had a lot of new listeners and we appreciate you joining into that one.

Erik: We do, we appreciate the feedback, got a lot of great feedback from folks that were not even bankers, the podcast got out into the market like we were wanting it to. Can’t believe this, today is our third show, we knew this topic would come up probably pretty quick, but we want to talk about digital banking. Obviously, it’s a hot topic in the banking world and probably will always be going forward. Today we’ve got two guests, we interviewed them and we want to play those for you. Our first guest on the show today is Jason Henrichs, Jason is an innovator in financial services, creating new business models, he uses this technology to drive change. He’s the founder of a company called FinTech Forge. They basically help banks of all sizes innovate digitally and make sure they’re on the right track with what strategy they have, he’s a frequent speaker on the intersection of regulation innovation. He’s got his own podcast as well, it’s called Breaking Banks, look that one up and listen to him. Jason goes into some pretty good details, kind of a high level overview of what banks need to be doing, how they need to be thinking.
Tom and I looking at each other like, man, this is pretty good stuff. Jason does a great job in setting up our second guests.
For every show we want to have a customer a banker, we want to not just provide theory for this podcast, we want to actually talk about what are folks doing in banks. Actually, the American banker just named him digital banker of the year. Patrick Sells is going to be with us, he is with Quantic Bank, he’s in Manhattan, he’s up in New York city. Patrick, I was going to share with us what they’re doing, they’re doing some pretty neat things. They were kind of like us, they were forced fast forward their digital strategy result of COVID-19. and were doing some really cool stuff before that. Got some really neat overview of what banks probably need to be doing and then we’ve got some real world application as to what one bank is doing. We hope you’ll enjoy these two interviews and we’ll go to Jason right now. Jason, we appreciate you being with us today, we know that you have got a lot going on, give us a high level overview of everything that you’re currently involved with.

Jason: We’re not providing daycare, or walking a dog, it’s a disclaimer for background delays. We do three things primarily, but it is all in and around FinTech and it’s not as disparate as the bio could lead you to believe. About eight years ago, founded a company called FinTech Forge which was based on this premise that you’re getting calls from banks saying, hey, can you help us be more innovative? Or can you write a digital strategy for us? We know that’s important, we don’t know what it means. Can you do that? One of the haha very early on was, they didn’t need better strategies per se, they lacked the ability to go execute on those ideas. FinTech Forge was created with the mind of, how do you build and extend the innovation capacity within a bank, specifically community and mid-size banks.

Jason: At this point we’ve worked with over a hundred banks, including one of the seventh largest banks in the country. Most of which, interestingly enough are pretty innovative and they’re the ones who get, Hey, we need to figure out how we push innovation throughout the organization. What came out of that next was founding a group called the Alloy Labs Alliance, which is a consortium of community and mid-size banks that are working together to adopt new technology and drive innovation, CenterState is one of the founding members there. The idea was, we can’t outsource innovation but we can invent new business models and ways of collaborating with other banks. Bank to bank learning to really push things forward, we need to do a better job of being in the business of banking, we can’t just play defense against the bigger banks, we need to really be figuring out how do we drive off offensively to do new and better things, that’s what Alloy Labs. Last, I co-host Breaking Banks we are the largest FinTech and banking focus podcast in the world.

Erik: Let’s talk about specifically, some things that the bank executives that are out there listening to this podcast can do. Many banks know they need to innovate the way they do digital banking, they may not always know how to do that or what the next step is, but let’s take a bank that they think, Hey, we got a great mobile app, but maybe we’re not sure beyond that, what we need to be doing. What, what does a bank like that need to be thinking about that thinks they really need to improve their digital strategy?

Jason: The first thing I want to hit is, you’ve got to break down that it isn’t about picking the right vendor or having the best technology. That’s not what is going to help a bank win in the digital space because that’s an arms race you’re not going to win against those who are throwing millions, if not billions of dollars against it. The first step is actually to step back and think for strategically. What are we trying to accomplish for whom what is going to set us apart? As an example, I was talking to a community bank, this is actually two or three years ago about their digital strategy and they said, we want a best in class mobile app. What does that mean to you, best in class? I don’t know, what’s wrong with that? It was like, you do invest all of your money,
you put all the money on red. If you get that best-in-class mobile app, how is that going to help win you new customers? They didn’t have a good answer for it and knowing their transformation journey, I can tell you, they stepped back, and the first part started with that strategy. I don’t care what size bank you are, the pandemic has accelerated it but it did not start it, the world is shifting, it’s shifting to digital. Instacart had its highest number of sign-ups in the over 60 age group ever at the start of the pandemic, they’re not going to go back. If as you think about your customer and what they need, digital has to be a means to an end. You need to figure out who those customers are and what you’re going to do to deliver that to them. You don’t need to even adopt new technology to accomplish that. In some cases, it might be as much as, hey, we need to take what we have already and make sure we’re tailoring it to our customers in new and better ways.

Tom: Jason, this is Tom, I had a question. Obviously you’ve seen a lot of digital offerings and plans, through that, is there some common mistakes that you see banks making over and over when it comes to those offerings or lack thereof?

Jason: Two lessons come to mind, the first is to over-invest when the game should actually just to be on par, think of that example of the we’re looking to be best in class, or what is that get you? The challenge is, if you over-invest in one area, those resources need to come from somewhere else. So you’re probably under investing in the areas that could actually differentiate you, figuring out where do I need to be on par and where do I need to go lead. Remote deposit capture would be a great example, if you were one of the leaders coming out with RDC, you probably won new customers. If you have a horrible RDC experience today, bringing it up to par is essential so you don’t lose customers, but you’re probably not going to win anyone because today with auto-focus, your check actually auto snap, the picture, no more frustration. That’s great, but you’re not winning new customers. You need to as quickly as possible, get to par. The second is, recognize once you get the technology, you’ve actually just gotten to the starting line. This is not like a core conversion that as you go live, the work is done where we just do a little bit of remediation and then dust our hands and say let’s go on to the next thing. Once you bring a piece of technology live, you need to continuously iterate on how do we get that in the hands of our customers? How do we evolve it in a way that is providing value to them and we’re getting value back. I would say that last part is where so many banks stumble then they wonder why they didn’t get an ROI from a project they took on.

Tom: When you look at digital offerings, there’s always that tension between the convenience of the digital banking versus the importance of face-to-face interactions. How do you try to strike a balance there and resolve that inherent tension between the convenience versus the face-to-face interaction?

Jason: That’s a great question, the challenge, is it always that a customer values the face- to-face is the reason they’re having it. I know a lot of those face-to-face interactions really are happening because they can’t accomplish what they want to in another channel. We need to figure out a better way of giving customers the ability to accomplish the things they want in the way they want to do those and save our human interactions for the things that really make a difference. If you look at the world of chat where human and machine come together, a machine will beat a human every single time in a game of chess. But, if you combine a human and a machine, it will beat the machine believe it or not, every single time, including the likes of the Garry Kasparov. You need that combination of intuition that comes from the human and the empathy combined with there’s a lot of things that a computer does better than the human.

Jason: We sometimes mistake being personable with being personalized, I love when I go into one of the many banks that I do business with and they greet me by name. I hate that every single time, because it’s part of their shtick they offer me the same set of products that have said no to for, eight consecutive years with lots of branch visits. Unlike a machine which would actually learn, Jason probably doesn’t want that. Why don’t we either offer him something else or demonstrate that we know and understand his need by discontinuing offering him that thing that he clearly doesn’t have a use for. I think when we start to rethink the way we do things, which, this is one of the silver linings of the pandemic. If we really go back to the why we do things and start over from what is best for the customer, we can rethink a lot of this and actually replumb. It’s just about putting a prettier interface on top of a horrible back office and process still, it’s rethinking from the ground up. How do we deliver value to our customers?

Erik: Jason, let’s set the focus just for a second and let’s talk about websites. We’re in the process right now of creating a website for our division, our bank just rolled out a new website. It’s got some pretty neat features that I think is new technology, artificial intelligence, I think, is going to be a part of ours. How can a community bank or just a mid-sized bank, what do they need to be looking at in ways to innovate their websites?

Jason: I would say, through the close relationship we have with CenterState via Alloy Labs I was fortunate to see some of the early wireframes and directions you were going, and you’re applying great technology. But for the community bank, that wants to just say, we can never do that therefore let’s not rethink our website, that’s the wrong message to take away. You don’t necessarily need AI to have a great website. What you do need is a clear articulation of who your customer is and what you uniquely bring to them. if you look at 98% of websites from banks today, they all look the same.

Erik: They do, your right.

Jason: More or less. If you’re saying my relationship as a customer matters to you, tell me why you matter and your uniquely suited to serve me, instead of seeing the same suite of products. The only real barriers, a lot of times being rates and fees. Even that’s difficult to understand, but if you can articulate in your website, what you are and why that matters to me, that’s the best thing, one of the best web bank websites out there right now is Redneck Bank. If you haven’t been into it, yeah, absolutely, and partially tongue and cheek about being a redneck bank, they do a lot a nag, but they speak to that. The brand just oozes we understand who we are and who we serve. It actually makes you say, yeah, I can see why I would with bank with you, not just because you have a good sense of humor, but you’re able to articulate how you’re different.

Erik: Where is Redneck bank, I’ve never heard of that.

Jason: Everybody’s going to be going to their URL after this one on your podcast. They’re in Southern Midwest and for years, by the way, this isn’t just a recent thing. When they rebranded and said we’re going to do something unique and different, you have to be able to tell that story. Another example, another one of the founders of Alloy Lab Alliances, Jill Castilla at Citizens Bank of Edmond, Oklahoma, they’re all about banking main street in admin and what that part of their community means. They built the entire brand around being able to serve who those customers are, and their website speaks to that very specifically. The pictures of the community, the people that they serve in the communities, the types of products they innovated on for that community. They’re heard on Hurd, Hurt Street is at the intersection of main street, they have phenomenal festival where they bring people to the downtown to support many of whom are their customers in getting people to really shop local. I think they understand who they are, who they serve, why that is different. You can’t just immediately replicate and go, that worked for Jill, I’m going to go do what Jill does. She had a unique advantage understanding how important main street was to her customers, you have to, as a bank stop and say, who is it we serve in such a different way? And, if your answer is going to be, it’s our relationship with our customers. That is not going to suffice and certainly cannot be delivered in a meaningful way digitally, because it’s just a bunch of words on a digital page.

Erik: Let me ask you this, and this will be our last question for you, I tell this story probably a couple of times a year, but calling on banks years ago in the state of Georgia. You would get 20 miles outside of the perimeter of Atlanta and I literally could not check my voicemail anymore because I was out of range for the service that we had. You literally were radio silent at that point, kind of on your own. Obviously. We have come light years from that, tell us about, and tell those listening those listening, trends that you’re excited about in digital banking that maybe five years from now, we have no idea about, but they’re going to be here and they’re going to be common. Tell us, how it’s going to change drastically in the next few years.

Jason: One that’s definitely going to get accelerated coming out of COVID-19 is voice first. I think the proliferation of Alexa and Google home and people who use Siri that while it’s been novel and made some inroads in areas, it is going to accelerate and change pretty dramatically. I often when doing talks will go into Clayton Christianson’s innovator’s dilemma and how technology that starts off is relatively inferior eventually usurps the incumbent. Think about the very first tablet that came out, they were horrible, in fact before Apple had the iPad they had launched the Apple Newton and several hundred-million-dollar mistake. But, it was just ahead of their time but Apple didn’t give up on it, people mock them when later they came out and said, they’re having another bite at the Apple, pun intended, and said, we’re going to do tablets.

Jason: Now when you go to conferences, that’s when you could go to conferences or even guessing how you guys are looking at your show notes right now, certainly it’s not a desktop could be a laptop, but it also could be a tablet. So, when we say, voice, it’s okay. But you know what? I mainly use it to check the weather or get the news. I think over the next five years we’re going to see a dramatic unleashing of its potential. The second is, I think banking is going to get stripped away from what we think about traditionally as a bank, and this model that’s perpetuated for hundreds of years that we’re taking in deposits and we’re, lending those out and managing to the spread. It’s very specific, you go to the bank with that as the intention.

Jason: I think we’re going to see a lot more embedding of the financial functions into other things. It used to exist that you had to go to the bank to accomplish this, but it was always a means to an end and I think the end is actually going to become the more important part of the transaction. And we’re just going to be those who serve it. I think that’s going to be a pretty dramatic shift for a lot of banks to start to think about how do they embed banking into the activities that others are doing.

Erik: Well, Jason, that’s a lot of good information and I’m sure we have piqued the interest of several of our listeners. So, I can’t let you go without asking if some of our listeners want to get in touch with you, what’s the best way for them to do that?

Jason: You can always drop me a note from the alloylabs.com website, Alloylabs.comlabs. and the other way is if you happen to be a banker on Twitter jus@JasonHenrichs, they can also find me, we release new podcasts every single Thursday at 3:00 PM Eastern, but a great backlog of stories talking from everyone from the insurgents to the incumbents about how the world of banking and financial services more broadly is changing.

Erik: Sounds great. Jason, we appreciate your time today, man.

Jason: Thanks for having me.

Erik: Let’s transition now to our interview with Patrick Sell, Patrick is the 2020 digital banker of the year, by the ABA, he was named that by the American Bankers Association. We’re thrilled to have him on, he is the chief innovation officer at Quantic Bank in New York city, they’re are $395 million bank located in Manhattan, let’s play Patrick’s interview right now. Patrick Sells We appreciate you being with us today on, our Community Bank Podcast. You are the 2020 American banker digital banker of the year. Congratulations on that.

Patrick: Thank you, Erik I’m excited to be here talking with you guys and on his podcast.

Erik Bagwell: Give us a little background about you, I know you did not get into banking, out of school, but you got into banking a few years ago. Tell us how that all came about.

Patrick: I think looking back, it’s always interesting how life twists and turns, and it can feel like things are very disconnected and in reality, there was maybe a much clearer path. I was in college and started building websites and doing digital marketing. My degree was actually in politics, I didn’t know much about marketing. I just assumed that if I was going to sell a website to someone or sell social media to them, I needed to understand the finance side of it. How much was I going to make them, so I knew how much they needed to spend. For six or seven years, I think that was really the defining part of my agency as we grow, we brought a very finance first approach. That was probably actually more my passion than the marketing side in many ways, and then got connected to Quantic as a client actually, of that marketing agency, and realized it was almost the opposite. That it was a heavy finance and got the chance to do marketing and be creative within that. As I got to know Quantic Steve who’s, our CEO and owner I just fell in love with the bank, the industry, him as a, as a person CEO and, uh, made that, made the jump to come over and haven’t a looked back

Tom: That was a very untraditional path and I wanted to contrast that with, with the path that I took Patrick, and your feedback on it, because I’m sure you deal with people like me all the time. I’m 60 years old, I spent 40 years, or 35 years in banking. When I went to college, the, the computer training was learning Fortran with the Hollerith cards where we’d pack them in a tray, take them to the computer center, run the program and see what your results were. Obviously, a world apart from today’s computer and digital processing, but, like I said, growing up in the banking world, you had to get acclimated to, working at certain levels of technology. I think most bankers now they’re comfortable with the smartphone, they’re comfortable working with an iPad, they’re comfortable at certain levels of tech technology and digital applications. But what do you see for the 60 year old bank executive, which, I’m sure you’ve come across in your business all the time, what do you see as their biggest blind spot still in dealing with the digital revolution that we’re undergoing as an industry?

Patrick: That’s a great question, and one that I’ve been spending more and more time reflecting on. One of the observations that I have, or the things that stands out to me is, the industry is talking about technology and innovation and digital, this and digital that. And yet, I think at the same time there’s this sense that we really haven’t made much progress or we’re not making progress very quickly. As I thought about that, it’s interesting to me because the technology exists, there’s technology everywhere. This isn’t a challenge that this challenge we face as an industry, isn’t about access to the tools or super computers or big data. It’s there, so much so that we’re seeing other companies, not in the industry begin to innovate and get involved in consumers’ financial lives and they’re not banks.

Patrick: I’m I kind of liking it, the technology is like seeds and we keep as an industry trying to throw all these seeds down about technology, this digital, that, and it’s not taking roots. I think what that’s caused me to realize is, the issue in the industry is about the soil, or I think really it’s more about the culture, the culture of what it means to work at a bank, what it’s like to be a banker, something there’s no right or not working because, again, the technology is there it’s just not taking root. To answer your question more specifically, I think a lot of senior bank executives, if you will, they want to start thinking we need to be digital, we’re going to go get Dell. We’re going to go get live chat we’re going to go get whatever and that’s the very thing I’m talking about; I think is the problem. They’re not saying how do I change the culture at my bank so that innovation can flourish? What needs to happen to the soil so that ideas can come to fruition that I can’t attract a different kind of person. I can create an environment where people want to try new things and test new things and they’re not scared of failing. I think my encouragement would be to really look at the culture of your organization, your team, how you manage people, what kind of benefits you give, how do you pay people? How do you handle failure? I think if you can begin to change the soil, the technology piece will happen very quickly and very naturally. Your bank executives will get to understand it more because it will become native in the organization as opposed to this. They just keep trying to plant on the ground if you will.

Erik: It sounds like they’re looking for a plug and play solution and you’re talking something more holistic and deeper than that.

Patrick: Yeah. You can’t bring it from the outside because all the technology’s there. That’s not where we need to be focused. We need to be focused on the inside and let it take root and then watch that change in the organization and change your bank.

Erik: Good points. Patrick, I read a quote that you had that was really good. I thought it was really good, you said the thought of making a mistake was almost paralyzing when you got the Quantic and I think anybody selling anything, the challenge is, you’re selling something to someone and it’s going to be probably a change in a process for whoever you’re selling to. You had to fight through some barriers at Quantic and I know, Stephen Shaw, the Chanel, the CEO that you mentioned, he was, he was ready to adapt it. So you had the, the backing from the top. Talk a little bit about that and the things you had to fight through to get some of those changes made.

Patrick: It was very fortuitous in that Steve was wanting to evolve and wanting to change, I think it wasn’t just lip service for him, he truly wanted this to authentic. Even when he and I were first talking about Bitcoin he wanted to understand that, before I even came over to work at Quantic we went and built the theory and mining Briggs. Not because we wanted to be into that business, but he wanted to learn what does mining mean? How do I understand this? He very much kind of created this space for what we did a Quantic and it was very authentic. He wants to evolve and that permeated through the culture. I think people were open, but of course they were very resistant at first. I’ve talked about this before, bankers, you’re not supposed to fail, you have regulators, we have internal auditors and regulators who audit our auditors. There’s so much of this sense of, I have to be perfect, I don’t want to try new things, this has always worked for me and we had to change that. For example, someone maybe messed up on a project or we picked the wrong technology, there were a few times that we had to be symbolic in what we were doing so I still gave that person a bonus, I still gave them a raise and they were shocked, like, what do you mean it didn’t work. But, it wasn’t about whether it worked or not it was about, can we become a digital bank? Can we become innovative? And, Almost having to intentionally reward the wrong behavior to change the mindset, obviously we’re not going to do that all the time, but those are some of the things that things we had to do to really get the culture to change and people to understand that we were going to do something different here.

Erik: Patrick, narrowing it down from the, the big picture a little, can you give us some specifics on what the digital innovations that Quantic has been doing in the last couple years?

Patrick: One of the things we did is, we built our own system called Quantic works, in one sense, this is a very next level concept. On another hand, it’s very simple, we have this core provider and yet it’s very hard to get data out of it. It’s hard to get pretty reports, it’s hard to get clean reports. It’s hard to be able to take our data that we own and share that with the FinTech, so we said, forget this. We are going to just put up a database in the cloud where we use Microsoft Azure, we’re going to go map every data point in our core, and we’re going to push it into our cloud database. From there, we will do what we want with our data, and we’ve used that to do partnerships with Fin Tech, to do integrations, to get greater insights into what’s happening into our customer’s lives, to get predictive reports. We did all of that without ever needing to, hey, core do this for me, or, hey, core I need that, and it’s going to take six months. That, I think is a great example of one of the things we did, also, on digital account opening, that’s something, today we’re 99% funded by online accounts. Part of what we did differently was, we didn’t just say, we’re going to have a digital account creation capability and live with it, no, it was, we want to become great at that, and that means we’re going to try and try. We had the original solution that was from our core, we felt like there was too much structure in the customer experience, we stripped out about a third of it, but a different FinTech and got better. Then, we decided we could do even better, we stripped it all out and we got better and in 18 months we’re on our fourth iteration of what that looks like. That’s part of what digital innovation for us, as with any technology, it’s try it, learn, and then try it again. ,

Erik: Patrick, let me ask you this, one thing that you hear community banks probably do poorly is. They let Fin Techs create a lot of innovation forum. They’re always the follower when it comes to technology and innovation, obviously costs can come into play at that point, there’s a lot of huge banks spending a lot of money on technology, but what you disagree, you think that community banks can be innovators, talk about that just a little bit.

Patrick: One of my more passionate topics that I’ve talked about. I look at it fundamentally, I think there’s a lot of value for this idea of a FinTech outside of the bank. I can’t help but feel like it’s a very inefficient model for everyone, for the investors, for the banks and for the Fin techs. Here’s a FinTech that’s maybe in their series A round or seed round, and they’re going to go raise a couple million dollars, then they’re going to use that money, a good chunk of it to pay a bank for access to rails or the core, whatever it is they need from the bank. Then they’re going to use a chunk of that money to cash flow the naturally long sales cycle in the banking industry. We all know that banks don’t buy quickly. So, you raised all this money and somewhere between 40 and 70% of it is wasted in my mind. Whereas, a bank could say, we’re going to attract you, acknowledging entrepreneur or entrepreneur we’re coming to our bank. Here’s a problem we have let’s work intimately together to fix it then let’s go take that and sell it to other banks. Maybe you’ll still raise capital from venture capitalist or private equity or seed investors, and you do it in their sister company to the bank. But now, if you raise $3 million, you’re not having to pay the bank for access to its pipes, you’re not having to pay to cash flow your own sales cycle because you’re a part of the bank. Then for the bank, you can actually begin to create incremental and a new revenue stream, and I would argue become a true digital bank and that you can begin to sell bank to bank your capabilities. I think it’s more efficient, it’s a better use of capital and ultimately could really help supercharge our industry or let us at least catch up to what’s happening all around us.

Erik: That’s a great answer to that question. Let me ask you this, we asked Jason this, and I’d be remiss if we let you go without asking you the same question. What do you see the future of banking or of the digital side of banking? What what’s out there? I know you guys, you’re a big runner and you all have a ring that you can actually use digitally to pay for stuff, a wearable, for folks maybe that are running, that don’t want to carry their iPhone. That that’s cool technology to me, what else do you see coming in the future in terms of that?

Patrick: That’s a good question, I think we’re going to continue to see the, the of different form factors and different functions in life. I look at the smartphone as an example, when we first got those we could make phone calls and we could very slowly look up a website and you could get an SMS text. Then you could do your banking on it, you could look on social media, you can call a car and what’s happened is it’s become a much more powerful platform that’s combining lots of different things. I think that’s what happens with banking, we’re seeing the early stages of that. We’re seeing non-bank companies get into this world some way, I don’t think it’s a perfect solution. I think what they’re bringing to the table is oftentimes incrementally valuable, I don’t think it’s perfect. I think banks are trying to do the same thing, but it seems like when I look at technology and how it evolves over time, there’s going to be a consolidation around a platform. What does that look like? What role does the bank play in being that platform versus being a piece in that platform? I think we, as a bank will always have a competitive advantage in that, we’re regulated industry and the government trusts us to act a certain way. So, can we become the platform actually, as opposed to the ancillary provider? I know that’s kind of a vague answer to your question, but philosophically that’s where I see banking moving today, we’re behind but I do think we’re going to end up in that main spotlight, if you want to be the platform for how finances work in people’s lives.

Erik: I think you’re totally right, just seeing where we’ve come in the 20 years that I’ve been in banking and, and Tom’s 30, 30 years Tom has been in banking. It’s amazing to see where we’ve been and now where we are and where we’re going. Hey man, listen, we appreciate you coming on with us on the podcast, we want every show to have, a customer or a banker perspective. We appreciate you taking some time today to let us know what you’re doing at Quantic. Thanks man, we really appreciate it.

Patrick: Happy doing it. Big fan of CenterState and all the work you guys are doing and even like the example of this podcast where you’re doing so much for the industry and for others. So thank you for having me on the show and glad we got to talk today.

Tom: Thanks man, appreciate it.

Patrick: Thank You

Erik: Tom, those were two good interviews man. The world is changing digitally at a rapid pace and if a bank out there listening is not staying on the forefront of that change, then they’re probably getting behind the curve. We hope that this podcast provides some good information and we appreciate everybody listening. Why don’t you give us a heads up on what the next show next week will be about?

Tom: Well, Eric, next week, we’re going to talk about funding, as you recall, a week ago, we talked about the investment portfolio so we got the asset side cover with that one. This one coming up, we’re going to be looking at the funding, stay tuned for all things funding.

Erik: Sounds good. We’ll look forward to it. Thanks again for joining us.