The 5 Voices of Leadership with Jeremie Kubicek

INTRO: Helping community bankers grow themselves, their team and their profits. This is the Community Bank Podcast.

CALEB: Well, hey everybody, and welcome back to the Community Bank Podcast. Thanks for joining the conversation today. I’m Caleb Stevens with SouthState Bank’s Capital Markets and Correspondent Banking Division. I have another great episode for you all today. We sat down with a repeat guest, Mr. Jeremie Kubicek. Jeremie is a leadership expert. He’s a speaker. He’s an author of multiple books. And he’s the founder and CEO of GiANT Worldwide. They create all kinds of leadership resources and materials for both leadership and business coaches. They certify business coaches, as well as for individuals like for yourself. Check them out—GiANT Worldwide. They resource leaders all across the country. And so, you don’t want to miss everything they put out. Today, Jeremie and I sit down and talk about one of their most prominent resources, which is the Five Voices Assessment, or the Five Voices Model that they’ve created. Basically, they assert that every person, whether in business or in your personal life, has a voice. And they’ve sort of distilled it down to five distinct voices that everyone brings to the table when you come into the workplace. And so, knowing what that voice is, so you can lead yourself, as well as leader others is critical for self-awareness and to build the kind of culture that you want to have at your bank. So, enjoy this conversation with Jeremie Kubicek, talking about the Five Voices.

CALEB, continued: Well, Jeremie Kubicek, it’s great to have you back on the show. I think this is your third time. So, you haven’t gotten tired of us yet. How are things out in Oklahoma?

JEREMIE: Doing great, Caleb. I was just saying it’s so crazy to see you grow, and just your years and getting to know you. So, it’s really fun to be back around and reconnect.

CALEB: Well, I think I met you when I was 16, and I turn 31 in a couple months. So, almost half my life.

JEREMIE: Which says a lot. It’s so funny, when you get older. You become the young man—young, young, young. And then you flip, and you become the old guy. And it’s like, there’s not an in-between. You’re young, and then you’re old.

CALEB: Yeah, yeah, funny how that happens. I think folks will probably be familiar with you from listening to the podcast. But, for a listener who’s brand new to the show—maybe this is their first time checking out the podcast—give us a quick fly over of your career and everything you do to serve leaders.

JEREMIE: Yeah, so, from the very beginning of my career, I started off living in Russia. I’ve lived in London. I’ve lived in Atlanta. I’m from Oklahoma, but I basically have a voracious desire to change leadership culture. And the reason that I want it, is if I’m trying to change leadership culture by realizing that culture itself, you have a culture with yourself. You have a family culture, and you have a team culture. It’s hard to transform much outside of those three. So, what would it look like if you could lead yourself amazingly, if you could lead your family, and your team? So, you can control that. You can work on those things. Not control, but you can influence. So, I’ve just been my entire life—I take complex concepts and make them simple enough for a 13-year-old to get it, so that it scales inside cultures.

JEREMIE, continued: And so, we’re working now in about over 100 countries. We work with most of the largest companies. And we basically help people learn how to lead themselves and become more relationally intelligent. And then we help them to understand their voice and the voice of those they lead. That’s what I’m pumped up about. That’s what I’ve devoted my life to, is to change leadership culture.

CALEB: Well, you made an impact on me early on. I think I’ve shared this story before. But I hated reading as a kid because I was forced to in school. And it was always fiction. I think your book was one of the first nonfiction books that I read cover-to-cover. It was a book called Leadership is Dead: How Influence is Reviving It. I think you’ve changed the title since then, but I remember in high school, one weekend, I went to Starbucks and read the whole book pretty much and I was like, “Wow, there’s books like this that actually talk about things that aren’t just fiction.” And I think that was my first leadership book I ever read. And that kind of sent me down an interest in the subject. So, I’ll always be indebted to you for that book and that impact you made early on me.

JEREMIE: I need that plug. I need you to send that out. I love it.

CALEB: Yeah, and by the way, I think you’re the only person I know that has spent time living in Russia full time. Would you mind sharing a little bit about that excursion?

JEREMIE: Yeah, early 90s. I had a professor in college, and he was like, “Hey, you’re an influencer. You’re a business guy. Let’s use business as a platform for influence.” So, we moved to Moscow. Me and some other students. I convinced a few others to go with me. And we moved to Russia, and we started the Moscow Economic School. It’s the largest private school in Russia still today, which is kind of interesting. We started a marketing company and an accounting training business. We sold those businesses and happened to be there during a coup attempt. Was in combat for three days. Lived above a mafia group. Had a number of mafia run-ins. And then we had a client assassinated—an American that was assassinated by the mafia.

JEREMIE, continued: And so, all of that happened. And that’s why I think the book resonated. Probably why you liked it—because it was full of mafia stories.

CALEB: Yeah, I remember that. Was this prior to wife and kids, or were they in the thick of it?

JEREMIE: Yes, I was single. For me, it was James Bond, John Wayne season in my life. It was kind of like we were impenetrable. We were untouchable.

CALEB: The wild gunslinger days, for sure. Well, I know you spent time there, you spent time in London. It’s really cool to meet somebody that’s got a passion to not stay comfortable. It could’ve been easy for you to stay put in Atlanta or Oklahoma and not take a risk. So, I admire just that perspective. One of the other books that we’re going to talk about today that’s had a big impact on me—and I know many others—is The 5 Voices. There are two books that I’d say are my favorites of yours. 5 Gears and 5 Voices. And what I like about it is it gives you a helpful, going back to making something complex simple …

CALEB, continued: It gives you a helpful model for to think about communication, how to think about the strengths that a team member brings to your team. To think about how to make sure your team is made up of complementary strengths. Can you walk us through “The 5 Voices” concept? Why did you make it and what’s the purpose?

JEREMIE: Yes, absolutely. So, here’s how I like to think. If you’re listening to this, and if you’ve ever been a gardener, or if you’ve ever had any plants whatsoever—what happens when you buy a new plant, right? A plant has a little plant card. And when you get a plant card, what do most people do with that plant card?

CALEB: Just take it out.

JEREMIE: They just take it out, throw it away. Because they go, “I know how to take care of a plant. I know how to water a plant.” And then the plant doesn’t grow, in a few weeks or a month, two. And then what do you do? Ditch the plant and you go, “Man, plants these days. Can’t find good plants.” Well, does the plant want to grow? Yes. Do you want the plant to grow? Yes. What happened? You didn’t understand the nuances and dynamics of that plant. That plant needed more water. It needed less sunlight. You counterintuitively put it right in the middle of the sun, and it baked. You gave it too much water. So, the plants—they give you a card. It tells you sunlight, soil, water—all of those things. In the same way, there are five different types of plants with people. Meaning, there are five different types of people. And inside those five, there are 16 total variations around personality.

JEREMIE, continued: Most people haven’t taken the time to know how to water their employees, their kids, their spouses. So, what do they do? They do the same thing that they’ve always done expecting different results, which means they’re insane. Right? We are insane. We do the same things over and over—how’s that working for you? All we did was put plant cards for people cards. “The 5 Voices” are like people cards.

JEREMIE, continued: “Oh my goodness—I had no idea. You’re a Nurturer-Connector. You’re like a ficus—you need a lot more water than if you’re a Pioneer-Guardian. You’re a cactus—you don’t need much water. I’m going to leave you alone, and you’re a little prickly.” But over here, if you understand who’s on the other side of you, and then can I learn how to be a green thumb and be a master gardener? And I can water people differently. So, all we did was we created a system for people to understand people easier than any system out there.

CALEB: That was my next question. There are so many different types of models, personality assessments. People instantly think of Myers-Briggs, Enneagram, DISC … the list goes on and on. What was it about this model that made you think, “This needs to exist out there”?

JEREMIE: Yeah, it’s all about scalability. So, here’s the problem. If I go, “So, what are you?” If I ask someone their Myers-Briggs. “Yeah, I’m an ‘EXTF.’” “Okay, what does that mean?” “Oh, I don’t know.” Or, “I’m a 7 with a wing-8.” Enneagram. “Okay, what does that mean?” “I don’t know how to explain it, but it was good.” So, there are so many great tools out there. We love Myers-Briggs. We love DISC. We love Enneagram. We’re actually fans of all of them. We had most of them add GiANT. They had 5 Voices to their coaches and consultants—they’ll add 5 Voices because 5 Voices makes Myers-Briggs stick and last longer. “The 5 Voices” is about scalability. If you want every single employee in your organization to know their voice, it’s so much easier to say “Connector” than “ENFP.”

JEREMIE, continued: “Oh, I’m a ‘Connector-Creative.’” “Got it.” So, I have at least my base five, then I get into my 16. Versus, what typically is out there, it’s just too much jargon. And it’s too much language that’s hard to remember. So, we’ve just found our system is sticky. It’s more scalable. And it’s more sustainable and lasts longer inside companies, like Google, the U.S. Air Force, all these different businesses.

CALEB: Yeah. Walk us through the main 5.

JEREMIE: Yeah, so the main 5. It’s also based on the loudest voice and the quietest voice. So, the quietest voice—is how loud is the voice—the Nurturer is the least loud. And it makes up 43% of the population. And 70% of that 43% are women. So, if you know that, that’s massive. Especially if you’re a banker and you’re trying to figure out marketing strategies, you need to know who your clients are. It’s really helpful for marketing and sales. It’s really helpful for training your people. So, 43% are Nurturers. The second quietest voice is Creative. The Creative—they’re a mix. About 9% of the population but 50-50 male or female. And then you’ve got the next percentage—30% are Guardians. So, we’ve got Nurturers, Creatives, Guardians. Guardians are 70% male, and Guardians are more logical, black-and-white. Nurturers care for people, chicken soup for the soul. Creatives are all about the future.

JEREMIE, continued: Guardians are all about logic and detail and order. Like the grid system. So, that’s 30% of the population. Then you get into the Connector. Now we’re getting really loud. The loud voices. And what we mean by loud is not just their voice projecting, it’s how they carry themselves in the room, and they can take everyone else’s oxygen. So, that’s the Connector—and they make up 11% of the population. And then Pioneers are the rarest—they’re 7% of the population. And they’re the loudest voice. They use power. They’re like generals. They can bulldoze people under stress. So, if you take all 5—Nurturer, Creative, Guardian, Connector, Pioneer—that makes up the 5 Voices that exist in our world. Inside of those, you might have a Pioneer-Guardian. Pioneer-Connector. Pioneer-Creative. Three different types of that one plant.

JEREMIE, continued: So, what you’re doing is you’re learning the base level first. Everyone can learn the base. If you want to go deeper, you can then get into the next level of understanding people. But what most people don’t realize is that other people drive them nuts, and it has nothing to do with the person. It’s just their personality wiring. They’re just a nemesis voice. They’re the opposite.

CALEB: That’s helpful. So, I took it yesterday because it’d been a while since I’d retaken it. And I think I got Connector-Creative. And what was fascinating to me about that—I think those are probably the same as last time, I can’t remember—but I’m actually a pretty introverted person. And yet, I would say I’m a pretty tenacious relationship builder. You might say networker—I don’t really like that term—but, you know, fill in the blank. Do you see a pattern between folks who are … I guess what I’m asking is: do you meet people on the street, and you talk to them, and you kind of peg them, “I bet you’re a Connector,” whereas they take the assessment and you might say, “Oh gosh, you appear outwardly to be one way, but actually you’re another way.”

JEREMIE: So, here’s the beautiful part. As humans, we’re adaptable, and we can become all 5 Voices. I’m all 5 of them, but I have a foundational voice. And I have a foundational voice by nature. So, by nature, I’m a Connector, but by my upbringing, my nurture, my experience, I play a Pioneer. I’m not a Pioneer. And a lot of men in particular, especially if they’re CEOs or leading companies, they think they should be a Pioneer. So, what happens is they’re playing someone on TV that they’re really not. So, in your case, you might be a Creative-Connector—which would be an introvert—but because of your job, your Connector is higher. So, you took it, and so you might be a Connector-Creative in your nurture, in the way that you work, but you might really be a Creative-Connector.

JEREMIE, continued: So, there’s work to be—and that’s okay. But you know you’re definitely not a Guardian.

CALEB: No.

JEREMIE: And you’re definitely not a Nurturer in that regard. So, when you know those dynamics, you can know yourself. Then you see your spouse, you see your coworkers. What’s it like to be on the other side of you.

CALEB: Well, it’s funny. And I’m not trying to make this a session all about Caleb’s personality here, but it’s funny. I forgot which assessment I took again recently, and I hadn’t taken it since high school, and the results were pretty markedly different from when I first took it. But what I’ve realized is, there were certain areas over the last ten years that I said, “I really want to focus on these areas, and grow in these areas, and improve in these areas. And it was almost things that maybe didn’t naturally come to me when I was in high school. I’ve spent time being intentional working on them. So, sort of the nature versus nurture question, I think, is always interesting with these.

JEREMIE: Mm-hmm, absolutely.

CALEB: So, and we’ve already kind of touched on this a little bit, but what kinds of conflict are avoided when there’s this level of self-awareness? I mean, to me, I think it eliminates the tendency to project your expectations onto somebody else. I think that’s a low-hanging fruit one, but any key areas of conflict getting resolved when folks are going through this process?

JEREMIE: Yes, so, every afternoon, at 5:30, my watch goes. It’s an examine. I do an examine for myself. And what I do is, “What was great about today?” I do it wherever I’m traveling, airports, driving. “What was great?” Two: “Where was I off today? Where was I not at peace?” And I start with myself. “Oh, man, I was really frustrated with so-and-so.” Well, why was I frustrated? So far, as it depends on me, why was I frustrated? What happens is I turn it into self-awareness. And I go, “I was frustrated with them. They’re a Guardian. They were drilling me with questions. They were interrogating me. It was frustrating. Was it their issue or mine? Hang on, Jeremie. What were they asking? They just want a monthly report. What if I just give them a video every once a month? What if I put on my calendar to film a video to send to them?” So, I did that. This was months ago. I did that—my problem went away.

JEREMIE, continued: My problem was that person and their interrogation frustration. But I had to pause and go, “What is my tendency?” My tendency is to go too fast. My tendency is to give too much. My tendency is to be out there. And all they were wanting was just a report once a month, and the video—3 minutes, maybe. So, I just filmed a little video, sent it over to him, and he’s gone, “This is exactly what I needed. Thank you so much. Perfect.” And I haven’t had any more frustrations of being pinged every two weeks because I slowed down enough to know and understand my personality and know who he was. And when I understand he’s a Guardian—he’s just looking for detail. I’m a Connector—I don’t do as much detail. “What if I created a system to do the detail?” And now I solved my problem. That make sense?

CALEB: Yeah, that’s very helpful. And it reminds me a little bit of even talking about roles, and fit with roles that Jim Collins concept of “get the right people on the right seats on the bus.” Do you ever find that there’s themes between roles? Somebody analytical in accounting, financial versus marketing creative role? Do you see that pattern play out in your company?

JEREMIE: Yeah, well, it’s tricky because you can’t hire people off personality. Because it’s not fair because some of us have upbringings, we’re all different. I will say I don’t put me in the Controller role—that’s not where I’m going to be putting my time. So, if you have a Connector, true Connector, as a Controller, you might go, “Yeah, let’s take a look at that.” Or if you have a Guardian who’s in a true sales role, “let’s be aware, let’s just make sure—” So, what you do is then you at least understand it and then go, “Oh, yeah, but they grew up in the industry. They can handle either nurture or upbringing.” So, it’s just great, helpful information. And what Jim was saying—and Jim is a friend. What he was saying back then was, “Gosh, so many people haven’t spent enough time being intentional getting the right people on the bus.” And what we’ve done is, yeah, that’s great—but that’s general. The 5 Voices is specific.

JEREMIE, continued: What type of people do you want on the bus? What does it look like? And what’s the communication like once they are on the bus? So, it’s not good enough to get the right people on the bus and in the right seat—you got to get them talking to each other. And they’ve got to be able to connect and communicate with each other. And it just goes to the next level.

CALEB: I think you make an important distinction too there between personality and temperament and skills. So, I was having dinner with a friend not too long ago, and he made the comment that he could see me being a CFO one day. And I almost laughed out loud. I was like, “You really think I could be a CFO one day?” But what he was getting across is not that that’s my temperament, because it’s not at all—I would be a very poor CFO—but he’s saying, “You’ve acquired knowledge because you work in banking to where you’ve got a level of competency here, but it probably wouldn’t charge your batteries, it probably wouldn’t be fulfilling. And yet, from a head-knowledge standpoint, maybe from a skill standpoint, you could know enough to be dangerous.” Do you ever see that kind of paradox of, you’ve got the skills here, but it really doesn’t maybe fit the temperament where somebody would succeed in that role?

JEREMIE: Yeah, absolutely. And again, that goes back to this nature/nurture and choice, you know? But, what you’re looking for, it’s really about maturity and security. And the more someone is self-aware … So, the beauty of the 5 Voices is it takes you on a journey of self-awareness. And if you want to understand yourself and know yourself, you have to know yourself to lead yourself first. This is the journey in relational intelligence. Know and understand yourself, lead yourself, change, then you start going, “What’s it like to be on the other side of me in a group, in my family, in my team?” Now the group dynamics, now I can start making changes so that we can perform at higher levels. But what we’re really looking for, wouldn’t it be amazing if people could manage themselves so that you didn’t have to manage them?

CALEB: Right.

JEREMIE: And that’s ultimately what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to create the system and the process. And so, our 5 Voices app is a great way—side note, if you want to take it. If anyone listening, if you want to go find out, go to the 5 Voices app. You can download it if you’re on iOS—it’s not on Google yet. Or, it’s not on Android yet. But it is on iOS. Or you can go 5voices.com and take an assessment and find more information.

CALEB: That was my next question. I’m sure folks are now itching to go figure out where they can take the assessment. Is there a free version versus a paid, deeper, get the full report—or how does that work?

JEREMIE: Yeah. Caleb, I have to be honest—I know our guys were just working on it. I don’t know where we’re at. We have both. I know we have a free version. What I’ll do—in the show notes, Caleb, maybe if you could attach them? And I’ll get you a link. If you want a deeper version, and if you want the app version. The app version is awesome for kids, for coworkers, for just B2C. We’ll give you both.

CALEB: Fantastic. Well, Jeremie, it’s been a pleasure. Thanks for everything you do to serve leaders, and we will certainly link to that in the show notes so our listeners can go check that out, so they can continue to improve in their leadership and their self-awareness. Like you said, lead yourself and know yourself so you can leader others and serve others. So, we appreciate you making the tool. Any other resources, things GiANT’s working on that listeners may want to know about?

JEREMIE: You know, the only other thing I’d say is, if you love this, we certify people inside companies. We have a lot of banks who actually have their HR team certify on the 5 Voices. They run the system internally, and so we have that available. Again, I’ll send that in the show notes as well. So, it’s a great tool if you want to actually get certified to do the 5 Voices inside your company.

CALEB: A great way to institutionalize it into your culture, yeah, that’s awesome. Well, Jeremie, thanks again. It’s been a pleasure.

JEREMIE: You got it. See you, bud.